Will She or Won't She? Not Even the Pundits Know for Sure!

Here are links to all three speeches from tonight...

Barack Obama Speech

http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/04/video-of-barack... ( http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/04/video-of-barack... )

Hillary Clinton Speech

http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/03/video-of-hillar... ( http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/03/video-of-hillar... )

John McCain Speech and blogger reactions

http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/03/video-of-john-m... ( http://politicsanew.com/2008/06/03/video-of-john-m... )

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

And I do not think staying in, when the race is over, unifies the party.

Tonight she had the opportunity to at least BEGIN to bring the party together, and she couldn't even muster acknowledging Obama now has the delegates.

Instead I heard how she has won more swings states.
How she has the popular vote.
How she will fight for your vote to be heard.
All fine and good when it's put in the context of unifying the democratic party-which she made only ONE reference too.

One.

The rest was all about her.

Not to mention she spoke after McCain spoke-and praised her up and down and sideways.

Not a word about McCain.
Zip.

Here we have the GOP nominee talking about how GREAT Clinton is for what seemed like EONS of time, and while the Dems are divided Clinton does NOTHING to bring the sides together but instead continue the battle on every single thing that has occurred.

I want the VP that is best for this country and can beat the GOP. If she's it-great. If OBAMA is the best VP-great.

But I want team players. Right now it sure does not feel like she's on my team.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain ( http://queenofspainblog.com/ )

She should take it to the convention because I resent the news media dictating who is and isn't the nominee.

I don't think she should be his VP. Way too much bad blood has been spilled and can you imaging the ruckus when in the third year she starts campaigning for the office of President?

Frankly I wouldn't trust her behind my back if I was President. I'm still mad at not one, not two but three bone-head statements coming out of her mouth.

That White House would be rocking with stories leaking all over the joint about what one did to the other. And nobody seems to answer the question "What would you do about Bill?" 

Gena - Out On The Stoop ( http://outonthestoop.blogspot.com )

As a blogger and as a long time member of the Democratic Party even though I am only 24; I don't think she should concede and I hope she doesn't. This is the most democratic process and it is being played out to the fullest as it should be. People who suggest that she should drop out, etc. are the same people who once upon a time got all upset that New Hampshire and Iowa practically determined who the nominee would be and the convention was rather superfluous. Now every single vote counts and I think it's fair and right and that the actual delegates at the convention should be able to vote on who the nominee should be as the rules of the Democratic Party explicitly state.

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada ( http://nopasanada.org )
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance ( http://blogher.org/topic/business-career-personal-... )

Just reading on MSNBC that Hillary expressed interest today in the veep position to Congressional reps from NY.

So much for my thinking she would not be interested... 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/03/...

nelle ( http://www.nelle2nelle.org/ )

I think they can pull it off, if they really want to re: Obama w/HRC as VP.  Their dedication to the Democratic party is really unshakable. I believe her stock is only going to go up now. It is sad - I got chills listening to her, but I do not see her as a spoiler taking it to the convention. I just don't - being a realist as well as a fighter has been a Clinton Hallmark.

And you know what I think is the biggest reason she won't go to the convention? Chelsea.  Chelsea as the embodiment of what we have GOT to get done now - that the fighting it to the convention hurts the future generations.

Clinton has already shown us everything there is to fighting - going to the DNC doesn't amplify that, it looks delusional, sadly, because in a democracy, we end up yielding to the Supreme Court no matter how we hated it and we yield to the process that she helped put in place re: the delegates.

This is what we do - we fight  we win we lose we go on and we do.  She is a doer who does by fighting for something - I don't think there's anything more to fight for now - she wanted everyone to vote - they voted.  Now, the only one she'd be fighting for would be herself - assuming she can exact promises from the Obama campaign to take care of the Clinton constituencies.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Hillary just gave an EXCELLENT speech.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

I don't see Obama and Clinton on the same ticket.  I belive some of the nastiness that occurred from her and her camp was beyond simple politics. 

I've read all the posts above and thought and thought and thought about it - and I just don't think the two of them will work.  I will respect Obama more for not caving in to people who call for him to pick Hillary.

And Bill - tired of him.  He adds nothing to the party at this point.

I'm not opposed to a joint ticket right now with BO and HRC, but Bill scares the bejeebers out of me. I worry he'd somehow screw it up...he's being setting himself a pretty fine precendent this primary season. 

Notions of Identity ( http://notionsofidentity.blogspot.com )

OK OK so I am a rebel. I'm also a conservative democrat who tends to be slightly pessimistic.

I simply do not believe these two people and all of their camps can work together to bring effective leadership to the White House. And, I do not want ineffective leadership in there for another four years.

The question for me is - can an Obama/Clinton ticket really work together and get things done? Can John McCain bring in a team who can work together and get things done?

I'm leading on a no for those two from the blue team and a yes for the red team (though without knowing who the second in command is for the red team, I'm still holding out.)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

an argument to be made along those lines, I don't see it working on other levels.

Hillary is not one to take a position that is toothless. Obama would have to cede a good deal of authority to her, and I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

I can't blame Hillary in turn for not wishing to be in a position where she has little actual authority.

And then there is Bill. If Hillary were the nominee and subsequently president, she has the say, Bill has to listen. If Bill goes off on another of his tangents, he is going to look bad in the eyes of the public. As the spouse of the veep, he is has far less keeping him in check, and he would give Obama indigestion within a year. Imagine your new assistant's spouse having once held your position? 

If I were Hillary, the Senate would be where I'd stay - unless Obama gives me the authority desired.  

nelle ( http://www.nelle2nelle.org/ )

They're politicians and they know you don't always get what you want the way you want it. 

The candidates' supporters would fall into line for the most part, if Obama and Hillary presented a united front. 

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/msmith )
Megan's Minute ( http://www.megansminute.com/ )
Video Runway ( http://www.womenonwomenblog.com/megan/ )

I think people sometimes confuse ambition with selfishness. I think Hillary Clinton is wonderfully, fabulously ambitious, and I think she cares deeply about America and the Democratic Party.

But we shall see.

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

... will seize that moment.  He already has started, suggesting in his blogger conference calls and news releases that he is somehow more pro-feminist because he wants to have a "conversation"  with us.

Don't be fooled!

PunditMom  ( http://punditmom1.blogspot.com )

Rebel message was for you!  ;)

That would be the one reason I could see Hillary taking VP if offered, because I think she would be a more effective advocate for those issues -- reproductive rights, work/life balance, equal pay/discrimination -- than any man, however dedicated, could be.

I think so.

They're grown-ups. Everyone just need to put on their big-boy/girl pants.

And remember: the candidates' supporters are not them. Much as the extremist supports of both campaigns offend me, I don't think either candidate has ever done anything that offensive. I think BO and HRC can both separate the other from their fanatics.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

... other things that would be personally better for HRC.  That's wny I don't think she would ever accept VP -- more concerned about herself.

... do Obama abd Michelle have it in them to say, join our team?  Not sure.

You are a rebel, woman!  I like that!

Ineffectual democrats do our country no favors. Solid, effective conservative leadership is better than ineffective liberal leadership.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

I don't believe it would work, either.

Hillary has broken down a lot of doors, but not the big one. First woman to win a presidential primary. A lot of presidential primaries, to be the closest competitor to a nominee in a long time.

When it comes to going to the convention, I can't support that action. Hillary needs to lay low for a few days, tell Bill to 'shuddup why don't you?' and arrange a meet up with Obama somewhere relatively quiet like.

I'd like for her to take up women's issues with him. She has a lot of delegates that are not yet released and who can still influence things other than a nominee. So come on, lets address some issues, because I firmly believe she doesn't have to push or prod, she simply has to mention.

Back to the veep... I'm not sure Hillary wants that position at this point, but I've no actual idea.

Maybe Obama can pick Jocelyn Elders. From a discussion perspective, that would be one hell of a wild ride! My gosh, some on the right would faint at the very thought. And maybe she would finally be vindicated. 

Seriously and practically, probably Webb, even if my heart would be with Jocelyn.  

nelle ( http://www.nelle2nelle.org/ )

I also think...If Barack doesn't pick Hillary to be his VP, you can bet that McCain will seize the moment and put a woman on his ticket. 

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

I think BO and HRC care about mostly the same things, and that given how close this primary was, neither can dismiss or afford to ignore the other. We need every voter they both got to get behind the Democratic ticket.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

I think they should team up at this point.  It's the only way to keep the support of the entire Democratic base on board. I was initially a HRC supporter, but I would take BO in a heartbeat.  I'd like the whole idea even more if they teamed up.

I see what you're saying, Denise, but I think their platforms and agendas are VERY close, so I think they could divide up their pet projects and conquer.

Surrender, Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com )- When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

Rita Arens is a contributing editor for BlogHer -- Mommy & Family.

If it's they who don't respect each other, or if it's their most ardent followers who don't respect each other. I suspect that both Obama and Hillary understand that politics is just politics. I honestly don't think this primary was all *that* ugly.

I think real ugly is yet to come.

In regards to what you said earlier about Hillary Clinton staying in until the convention, I will say that the bizarre decision by the DNC on Michigan (arbitrarily taking 4 earned delegates from her and giving them to him) did open the door for that.

But I suspect she won't if Obama offers her the VP spot.

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

Hey Denise.  I don't think they need respect, they basically want a lot of the same things...And two dems that don't respect eachother, is still better than McCain (or any Republican).  

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

I don't think either of them respect each other and even if they pull it together to get through the election, that leaves them as a dysfunctional team in the White House - and I'm not interested in voting something like that into the White House. It's going to be difficult enough to get anything done with Obama as president.

She is the strongest choice. Unfortunately, I don't think it will work if it happens.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

If Obama clinches enough delegates tonight, it's time for Hillary to give it up. If she doesn't she's going to look like the Queen of Sour Grapes and that won't be good for her or any future runs she might want to make.

I think what would probably put a lock on the White House in the fall is if Obama and Hillary run together. They may not like each other much...and I'm still not so sure about that...but so what? There have been stranger political bedfellows.

And it's not so much that Hillary deserves the second spot, the people who supported her and brought her this close deserve a representative in the second spot. 

If however, Obama doesn't want to choose her for VP, hopefully he'll make his choice soon, so the topic will stop coming up.

I disagree about Hillary taking the fight to the convention, because the DNC powers that be won't allow it, and she'll still have to concede, except in a much less favorable way.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/msmith )
Megan's Minute ( http://www.megansminute.com/ )
Video Runway ( http://www.womenonwomenblog.com/megan/ )

I'm very pro-dream ticket in either order.

All the snipping is just politics, and no, they don't have to like each other to work together. They're politicians; they need to do what it takes to win , and I certainly continue to worry about Obama being able to win without Clinton on the ticket.

Are there personally better things for Clinton to do than be VP? Yes. But if her as VP is what's best for the party, then I think that's what she'll do, and she'll adapt to that role. Because she's running because she truly cares. She's stayed in the race because she truly cares. And she will run as VP because she truly cares.

If Obama can't make that work, then he's not the politician we're hoping he is.

But actually, I think he's very politically savvy, and I think they'll make it work. Hillary as VP is simply the strongest choice.

Liz Rizzo ( http://blogher.org/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

A dream ticket should be seriously considered...I've been saying for a long time that the only way this party can come together and beat the Republican machine, is to have both Hillary and Barack on the ticket. And I still believe that is true.  I hope this decision will be made quickly, so supporters of both candidates can begin to unite against McCain.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan at catherine-morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ), The Political Voices of Women ( http://politicsanew.com/ ), Care2 Election Blog ( http://www.care2.com/politics/features/ )

I don't want her to step down. Take it to the DNC. Let's see how this really DOES play out. And, I don't think an Obama/Clinton ticket works. I don't think the working relationship will work. I don't think either of them trust each other or respect each other enough to make a good P/VP team. And Clinton is not the invisible VP type.

Nope, take it all the way to DNC and forget VP - Clinton is better than the VP spot in a dysfunctional working relationship.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )

Well, we've manged to once again completely avoid any issues. And as soon as the Dems settle on a candidate -- I assume it will be Barack Obama, we'll continue to turn non-issues (what did his pastor say? did he release his tax returns?) into issues.

What's depressing about all this is that the feeding frenzy is paramount, but we don't actually get into the issues that affect the people of the nation. We truly do elect our president on popularity and sound bites, rather than substance. 

I think many of us in our discussions fail to consistently see the double-edged nature of these two campaigns: race helps in some cases and hurts in others; gender helps in some cases and hurts in others. Being well educated is "smart" in some cases, "elitism" in others.

Similarly--A BO/HRC ticket would be a dream to some and a nightmare to others. Some folks who would be OK with either a Black man or a White woman alone would not be comfortable with both at the same time. Not to mention a long history of racial/sexual imagery such a pairing would invoke for some (many).

Recoiling from this elephant in the room might make us temporarily comfortable, but make no mistake that we as a country are not past these kinds of subliminal worries and it will become an issue if these two run as a pres/VP team. 

Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast ( http://blog.lib.umn.edu/perry032/impossible/ )