Will You Be Getting The Swine Flu Vaccine?

You can get flu shots at this Rocky Point urgent care center http://www.ouchcenter.com/angier.html

I for one used to always take myself & my children to get the annual flu vaccines. It seemed like every year that we received those shots we all got sick shortly after. Then one year my daughter had a slight cold & I said no to her receiving the vaccine. She didn't sick like she had before with the vomiting & diarrhea. I say no more flu shots & no, no, no to the swime flu vaccine. I saw the report on the vaccine in 1976. That was enough for me to make my mind up then.

Thanks for sharing this important story.  If you want the vaccine you should be able to get it, but no one should be forced to get it or risk losing their job.  I commend you for standing up for your civil rights.

I hope you'll let us know how it turns out.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

I consider myself a NON Health care worker who happens to work for a major Hospital in NYC, and I have to say that this mandatory law really stinks and I consider it a violation of my civil rights. I don't know how the NYSDOH concluded that a person that sits infront of a computer all day long(I am a Computer Programmer) can be a health threat to patients when I don't even deal with them or the people that treat them. Or for that matter the secretary that sits in the front office all day long and we are in a building that is not the hospital. But I am included because I still work for the hospital. Well I have to say that I for one will not abide and I am willing to loose my job. I will not be forced to take something that has not been tested rigidly. I have never had the flu or received a flu shot in the past. I fight myself to even take a aspirin when I have a headache because my health and well being is very important to me. I am siding with everyone else who is against this mandatory vaccine and pray that it will be rescinded. I decide what goes into my body not someone else.

There seems to be a lot of controversy about pregnant women getting this shot. A recent NYT article ( http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/health/02flu.htm... ) reports experts are worried about pregnant women being vulnerable to the flu:

Dr. Schuchat expressed particular worry about pregnant women. As of late August, 100 had been hospitalized in intensive care, and 28 had died since the beginning of the outbreak in April.
“These are really upsetting numbers,” she said, urging obstetricians and midwives ( http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseases... ) to advise patients to get swine flu shots as soon as they become available.

For pregnant women who have never taken a flu shot (swine or seasonal) in their lives, what's the best way to decide if this is the right time to start? Any ideas?
I understand doctors are advising in favor of the vaccine, but...

Anyone with this experience, please?

I have had RA since I have been 12 and am currently on a major biologic drug Orencia.  While Orencia has been a gift from God for my RA,  it makes me and others like me very very suspetible to influenza and bacterial infections such a pneumonia.  I just got over the Swine Flu and if you are on a biologic drug   I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get the vaccine as well as the pneumonia vaccine.  

I had major problems breathing and am lucky to come out of it ok

Best Wishes,

Katia

Some years pose questions, while others answer them

Thanks for your comment, I agree with most of what you are saying.  The one thing that I have a problem with is the idea that there are  "systems in place to treat people who cannot afford it" -- While this is true, most uninsured don't qualify as financially needy and still leave doctors and hospitals with very high bills...and that is why they resists reaching out for help and are at a greater risk for death.  I'm only predicting that this will continue to contribute to some deaths related to swine flu...I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway...There is a discussion going on right now about health care and the public option that you might be interested in jumping in on.

Is The Public Option Dead? ( http://www.blogher.com/public-option-dead?from=pro... )

Thanks again for your comments.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

I am in agreement with so much that you say, Catherine.  My only point is that there are systems in place that provide medical treatment to people who cannot afford it.  Making a direct link between death from H1N1 and lack of insurance is simplifying two very complex issues. 

I checked the link you provided because I am curious about the sensationalist statistics.  In reality we each have 100% chance of death, so my question is 'how can the uninsured have a greater chance of death?"  Without seeing the actual numbers used to calculate these stats, I am unable to comment.  That said, some of the percentages in the article raised my eyebrows.  (For an example of how statistics can be manipulated, see my blog post:  Playing the Odds with Life.)

I am happy to see that you and I agree with the need for Affordable Health Insurance for Everyone; for me, that must include a Public Option.  I'm with you, it is an Outrage.  It's also an outrage that corporations are allowed to buy what they dub "peasant death insurance" and at the same time they can forego providing health insurance to their employees.  Thus, these corporations actually make money from the death of their employees.  Again, a very complex issue, and aside from the subject of this thread.

Adela www.theblacktortoise.com ( http://www.theblacktortoise.com )

Thank you for the additional information on the flu vaccine.

However, I do want to clarify one thing about your comment regarding the insured paying for the uninsured.  [And I'll apologize now for the rant I'm about to go into.]  There is some aspect of truth in that...The insured do pay somewhat for the people who don't pay their bills.  However, most of the uninsured are not getting handouts or skipping out on bills.  And in many cases, it is actually the UNinsured that are paying more so the insured can pay less. 

This is because insurance companies don't pay the hospital the full amount of a bill (usually they just pay a fraction of the actual bill), so the uninsured or anyone who pays 'out of pocket' are actually given a higher bill than the patient with insurance. This may sound crazy, but I assure you it is true...

Hospitals charge the UNinsured more than the insured ( http://healthnews.benabraham.com/html/hospitals_ov... )...

(CBS) Most Americans know that if you get sick enough to go to a hospital, it's going to be expensive. But you may be surprised to learn that hospitals all over the country charge their highest prices, by far, to those who can afford it least — the 46 million Americans who don't have health insurance.

Hospitals charge uninsured patients two, three, four or more times what an insurance company would pay for the same treatment. And, when the uninsured can't pay, they often find themselves the target of collection agencies or in bankruptcy court.

I also think the insured have a misconception about what it is like to be uninsured. It's NOT about going to the ER when your sick and getting treated for free. Far from it.

I experienced this first hand over the summer with a friend of my son's. This is what happened...

My son's friend is a full time college student who works just a few hours a week for minimum wage. After having a sore throat and fever for a day or two, she asked me what she should do. I told her she should go to the doctors and get checked out. That is when she told me she no longer had insurance through her parents and couldn't afford to get it on her own. I put her in my car and took her to a nearby clinic. They wanted nearly $200.00 (cash) just to see her. Well, she didn't have anything close to that.

Knowing that the ER had to treat her regardless of her ability to pay, I assumed that she would end up with an adjusted bill lower than $200, so I took her over to our ER. They took her in immediately. A nurse took her vitals and a physician's assistant took a look at her throat (didn't even do a culture) and said she had strep throat, and was given a prescription for an antibiotic.  All together she was in the exam room for about 10 minutes, didn't see a doctor, and had no lab work done.  It all was so smooth and easy...Until we were leaving.

This is when it gets dicey for the uninsured...

Before she left she was handed a bill for over $500.00. When I explained that she was an uninsured college student with little to no money, they sent us to the billing area. There we were told that if she paid now they would give her a 40% discount off the bill, but after 24 hours the bill would go back to the original amount. We explained that she didn't have anywhere near that amount of money. That was when we were told that she would probably qualify for a program through the hospital for low income people.

We had to pay $50 to apply for the program (I paid for that), but once the paperwork was all filled out the rest of the bill should be taken care of (with her maybe having to pay another $50). That sounded more like it.

The problem is...they also said that applying for the program does not guarantee anything, and that if she did not qualify she would be expected to pay the full amount of the bill. But at the time, that was really the only choice she had, so she filled out the paperwork, had a phone interview a few days later, and then had to wait for about 6 weeks before she found out whether her bill would be taken care of.

Well, she finally got the notice that she qualified, and half of her bill would be covered. Basically she was going to have to pay $250...and after you add in the $50 that we had to pay for the application, she was looking at a $300 bill for a sore throat.

After seeing with my own eyes what someone with no insurance goes through, I can totally understand how many might delay treatment for as long as possible in hopes their illness will clear up on it's own.   And there is no doubt that this behavior will contribute to more people dying from illnesses such as swine flu.  Ironically, the people most at risk for dying from the swine flu (the uninsured) are also the ones that wont have access to the swine flu vaccine. 

Lack of Health Insurance Raises Death Rate ( http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/lack-hea... )...

People without health insurance are 40 percent more likely to die than those with private insurance, according to a new study whose authors say the finding underscores the need to expand coverage to the 46 million who lack it.

According to the report, published today in the Journal of Public Health, lack of health insurance was a factor in the death of as many as 45,000 people in 2005.

So, if you don't have health insurance you are 40% more likely to die from something that is treatable and an insured person would recover from.  This is outrageous!  I'm actually embarrassed that I live in a country were people think this is acceptable. 

[end of rant]

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

First, I must get this off my chest:  I am a big proponent of a Affordable Health Insurance for everyone, including a public option.  That said, there are already systems in place at hospitals that provide emergency care to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay.  We all subsidize this system; it is absorbed into the billing of patients who have the means to pay.  To piggy-back H1N1 deaths onto someone's lack of insurance, is simplifying a complex issue.  Thousands of people die from the seasonal flu every year.  Some have insurance and some do not.

There is a little bit of mis-information in the posts above:

1.  There's no such thing as a synthetic vaccine.  If there was, we could probably create life.  Technology has come a long way in controling and testing the process of making vaccines, so flu vaccines are much safer today than in the past.  That said, so far as I know, no one is attempting a synthetic vaccine. 

2.  The nasal spray flu vaccine uses a small dose of attenuated virus.  The virus is alive, but altered to render it harmless. There is a small risk that the virus will mutate back to its previous state, which would most likely result in the patient coming down with the flu.

3.  The seasonal flu shot is inactivated virus, which means the virus is killed.  There is a small risk of incomplete kill, which again, could result in coming down with the flu.

4.  The H1N1 vaccine is an adjuvunct vaccine.  The virus is altered to increase the immune response so one dose is sufficient to develop immunity.

5.  A cytokine storm happens when too many immune cells respond to the site of infection.  The feedback mechanism breaks down and antibodies flood the site resulting in severe inflamation.  With flu, the site of infection is the lungs.  A cytokine storm causes the air tubes to become blocked; the inflamation can get so severe as to result in death.  (Cytokine storms are not unique to H1N1 virus or flu.)

A couple of helpful sites:  http://www.wisegeek.com; http://www.cdc.gov; http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAv...

To vaccinate or not to vaccinate is often a difficult decision.  No answer if risk-free.  I trust my comments will help everyone in their personal decision making.

Adela www.theblacktortoise.com ( http://www.theblacktortoise.com )

The shots scare the hell out of me.

Every time I have recieved a flu shot, I was sick all winter long. One year it increased my asthma symptoms (I was diagnosed with adult onset asthma that year), one year it was winter long bronchitis, and the last year I had the shot, it was extreme fatigue, that put my body under stress.  The complications from the last flu shot I recieved snowballed into a life changing event. I was not healthy enough the following year to receive a shot and it was the first time, other than still suffering from complications of the previous year, that I didn't come down with a new winter long illness.That was the year I tied the flu shots to my being sick in the winter.  Since I no longer recieve the flu shot, I stay pretty healthy in the winter, other than maybe a simple cold.

If I had a decreased immune system and had the shot, I hate to think of what might happen.

The shots should not be mandatory. for anyone.

My younger daughter has a handful of health issues, including a compromised immunity system. She's always going to get these vaccines as a result. She got hers today, as did I. In a couple of weeks, the rest of my family will get vaccinated too. I think inaction is not the right move for the parent of someone who gets sick more easily, and much worse, than the general population.

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Having spoken to both my doctor and my aunt, a physican, I might get it. For the reason that those who have died, the young, have had healthy imminue systems. The most recent deaths in people my age,  a student from Cornell and a post grad from Miami University in Ohio, happened in people who had healthy immune systems. 

The vaccine could privide some protection from an event, that though rare sometimes happens when we get viruses we have never been exposed to - especially the stronger version of this particular flu,  something called  cytokine storm, where a healthly immune systen goes wild to fight this swine flu and ends up in a crazy state unable to distinguish one's own body cells from the virus. The stronger the flu (the more potent mutted version of swine that is around) the more likely a healthy immune system could go this way if never exposed to this partcular virus before.

If available I will probably get it, though I wonder at the liklihood of it beinf available.

cooper

Hi Cooper.  I'm not sure about the Cornell student, but the graduate student from Miami University did not have health insurance.   And because she had no health insurance, she delayed getting medical treatment.

Friends say the Miami University graduate who died this week after reportedly suffering from swine flu delayed getting medical treatment because she did not have health insurance.

This kind of thing makes me very angry, because this girl did not die because she didn't get a vaccine...she died because this country doesn't have a healthcare policy that insures everyone.  Sadly, I don't think this will be the only such case. 

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

Thanks for sharing how you have made your decision about getting the vaccine.  It does seem to make sense for you and your family.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

While not mandatory, it will be STRONGLY recommended where I work - a rehab hospital - b/c we have patients on ventilators and long-term care residents.  These immune-compromised patients' lives are at risk from any flu we bring in (we also are strongly encouraged to get the seasonal flu shot). I'm not a direct caregiver, but I use the cafeteria, restrooms, doors, etc..here so we all have to work together to keep our most vulnerable patients safe.  I never got a seasonal flu shot before working here - I have a pretty good immune system and believe that building antibodies will help me in the long run.  Same philosophy for my kids.  But now we all get them - if I am exposed to H1N1 by one of them getting it, I can't work for a week regardless of whether I show symptoms.  With two kids and a husband who could have H1N1, I could easily end up missing three weeks, minimum, of work without ever being sick.  This part of the decision is purely economics.  I can't afford to take off a week, let alone 3+ weeks. Surely many people make this decision thinking about missing work/pay.

I'm 65. I don't get flu shots of any kind and I've never had the flu, except once. That was the year I did have the flu shot and I got deathly ill from it. Of course, that was back when the vaccines contained a tiny speck of live flu virus. Today, they are synthetic, but I still don't like the idea of shooting something into me that's bad for my health in order to keep me in good health.

Further, as Adela has mentioned, I generally don't swoop up the first model off the lot and the swine flu vaccine falls firmly in that category.

I do agree with Catherine. Everyone should be free to make their own choice.

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My kids just had their seasonal flu nasal mists last week (they were both relieved that was an option!), and I talked to our doctor about the H1N1 shot. Based on limited availability and many unknowns it's not something I want anyone in our family getting. My biggest questions are how wide spread and how serious is this strain - really. Everyone I have known to have had it, says that it's milder than the seasonal flu and is over quicker.  So, we'll wait and see what happens!

Thanks so much Adela.  You make some really great points here.  I totally agree with you about the increase in autoimmune diseases having something to do with not allowing our bodies to actually "learn" to fight off "real" disease. 

Thanks for all of this great information and insight.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
at Catherine-Morgan.com ( http://catherine-morgan.com/ ) and Women4Hope ( http://women4hope.wordpress.com/ )

No, I have no impetus to get the swine flu vaccine.  People who were born before 1957 most likely already have antibodies because they have already been exposed to a similar strain of the flu.  That means I will either be immune, or I will contract a milder form.  I hope this fact alone helps to calm some of the hysteria.  This isn't some new scarey flu; we've seen it before.

I get the seasonal flu shot most years, but not if there's been a shortage, or if there's been a bum's rush to get it out there.  In spite of all the quality checks the manufacturers put in place, there's always a margin of error.  That increases when people are in a hurry.  My paranoia is based on my experience in the pharmaceutical industry and because "peoples is peoples."  In defense of the industry, just like no one should be forced to get the vaccine, no corporation should be mandated to produce a vaccine without some caveats.

As a microbiologist, I'm all for educating people on measures to avoid contracting and spreading disease.  Nonetheless, it's also good to exercise our immune systems.  The old saying, 'what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger" is very true. Not to be trite about death, but so far, H1N1 appears to be no more deadly than the seasonal flu.  There's no reason to think this strain is more likely to mutate than any other strain of the flu.  There are studies that indicate some of the autoimmune diseases which have increased dramatically in recent years, are due to the immune system, for lack of work, turnig on itself. 

Adela  (Director, Quality Assurance & Regulatory Affairs)

www.theblacktortoise.com ( http://www.theblacktortoise.com )

My kids had their seasonal flu shot yesterday, and I talked to our doctor about the H1N1 shot. They won't have it for at least another month, and in limited supply. Based on what I've heard about the vaccine at this point, I think we are going to pass on it and just take extra precautions. I feel there hasn't been enough research or testing done on it at this point to subject my children to it and not knowing what might happen. I don't plan to get it myself and am not high risk, though I will be getting my seasonal at our local Walgreens.

I was at my doctor's office, and actually expected her to give me a seasonal flu shot during my visit. They had run out of vaccine, so she told me to get the seasonal flu shot at the local Walgreens. (I normally do get a flu shot and haven't had the flu in years.) But she mentioned that the vaccine for H1N1 will be limited and most likely only high risk people will get it. I'm not a high risk person, so that answers the question for me.

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My mom has always been in health care and simply always had us kids wash our hands and eat lots of oranges and take our vitamins.

We were rarely sick with the flu.

Doubt I'll be getting this vaccine or subjecting my kiddos to it either.

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