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Women Leaving Men for Other Women, on Wednesday's Oprah

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This month, O Magazine featured an article Why Women Are Leaving Men for Other Women, by Mary A Fischer, and as a companion piece, yesterday's, March 25th, Oprah show was Women Leaving Men for Other Women. I'm not sure exactly what it is about this being an Oprah topic that bothers me, but I'm a bit bothered. I will admit, I've only seen clips of the show, so I can't really speak to the entirety of the show, but I have read the article. I'm having a tough time fully collecting my thoughts here, so if I can't come up with a coherent thought train on this, I'm apologizing now.

For me the whole thing gets off on the wrong foot with the title. 'Why Women Are Leaving Men for Other Women' makes it seem as if it's a decision like, well I'm tired of cake, I think I'd like pie now. I believe it sets a certain tone, like one relationship is somehow better than, or the answer to the failure of the other. And that is certainly not the case. Sexuality is not a pragmatic decision. It is what it is, and you can't make yourself attracted to someone to whom you are not. Perhaps better titles, better content would have centered around 'Why Are Some Women Coming Out Later in Life?'

After implying that it is trendy and sexy to trade in your man for a woman, because people like Lindsy Lohan and Cynthia Nixon have done it, the article only briefly talks about why it is there seems to be a rise in late in life coming outs. Their answer, greater societal acceptance. I don't think most heterosexuals understand the pressure to conform that we, GLBT people, live with. It is especially tough in the teen through early 20 years when we are forming our identities, becoming our own person. Some of us have the strength to just be who we are and love who love. Some of us know who we are, but try to fit in by pretending we aren't who we are. Then there are some of us who are in such denial that we can't even see it until it jumps out and bites us. Unfortunately, this denial leads some LGBT people enter heterosexual marriages when they are younger, and though they may love their spouse and children, they eventually reach a point where they can no longer continue to deny their true sexuality.

The article also gets into the idea of fluid sexuality. Fluid sexuality is more about being attracted to the person specifically, in the sense that you may not normally be attracted to someone of that gender, but with regard to this person you are. Now while I like that the article puts forth the idea of fluid sexuality, I don't really buy that as answer to the original question of why women are leaving men for other women. Since fluid sexuality isn't really about one gender verses the other, but about being attracted to a specific person regardless of gender, then it isn't really about leaving one gender for the other. Though from the outside, it may be viewed as leaving a man for a woman.

In my opinion, the article gets too muddled with gender identity, gender roles, gender characteristics, and the specific of the couples featured in the story to reach any real conclusion. Or least to answer why women are leaving men for women. A few other women have written their two cents worth about this article.

violet analyzed this article in her post Feminism is to blame for this, of course She says,

All of this means the article-so close to being a genuinely-moving-if-shallow exploration of gender and sexuality-actually reads at various points more like it's titled, "Why Women Are Leaving Men For Other Women (Who Are Actually A Lot Like Men, So Your Patriarchal Notions Of Gender Identity And Presentation Need Not Feel Overly Threatened)".

Nat discusses the problems she has with the article in her post Oprah talks female homosexuality She says,

Something else that bugged me in the article was the apparent pitting of men versus women, as lovers and companions. The title of the article "Why Women Are Leaving Men for Other Women" does this at the start. Most of these women did not ‘leave' men for women. They didn't just decide to divorce their husbands, split

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nellewrites 6 pts

No matter what.it's encouraging to see so many folks on here discussing this!

It is undoubtedly a good deal harder to shut me up than it is to get me to rant on any given lgbt topic. ;-)

llhaesa ( http://llhaesa.org/ )

reinzig 5 pts

I haven't seen it yet (I religiously AVOID Oprah and have never really gotten the attracton), but am interested reading people's posts here.  

 My overwhelming response, as uninformed as I am, is...is this a surprise?  What would we expect from daytime television?  What would we expect from Oprah, who has a looooooong history as a card-carrying member of I'm-so-cool-about-gay-and-lesbian-people-despite-the-fact-that-any-discussion-of-them-makes-me-sweat-and-squirm club?  I used to watch her a long time back, like when JoAnn Loulan was on her show talking, ironically, about the reverse to this...how a lesbian could fall in love with a man (imagine).  Oprah was confused. though I think it's an occupational hazard.  I also watched when she did a show on queer parents (since I am one, and thought I'd see how she did, which was Not Good.)

The most I can hope for here is that, among Oprah's primary audience (white middle class and upper middle class women who are home during the day), someone gets permission to follow their heart from watching this story.

The media relies heavily on sensationalism of lesbian lives, often for the titillation of straight men (which just gives me the heaves).  This just seems like one more example.  It does make me think of "Here Come the Lesbians" though, which makes me laugh (anyone out there remember that song?)

 No matter what.it's encouraging to see so many folks on here discussing this! 

Robin

Visit my blog at http://hereswhatidontget.blogspot.com

Cherre 5 pts

I just happened to see this show, which is weird bc I never watch Oprah. I thought it was silly, a grab for ratings at best. Bisexuality doesn't seem too groundbreaking but they were making a big deal about it. Just a sexy topic to get attention.

http://FindYourBalanceHealth.com ( http://FindYourBalanceHealth.com )

She Who 5 pts

but I've known more than 30 years of the 'first cake, now pie" folks, and I haven't actually seen a change in the numbers. I'd love to think people "experimented to develop their identity" for a few years and then settled down in nice gay relationships, because that makes it easier for everyone to pigeonhole them, but they don't.

People are just working on it. And if they live long enough, some people may be on all sides of the relationship scale. I know a middle-aged heterosexual mother of 2 who got in a relationship with a woman a couple of years ago, and no amount of rhetoric from anyone makes either of those relationships less sincere or valid than the other. She didn't 'come out of the closet' she just entered a new room. Someday she might be back in the old one. Likewise a gay college friend of mine is trying to figure out if he might be straight. And who's to say he isn't? Only he can decide what he wants, and that will probably change over time.

Most people don't look at a divorced person and say, "Karen! I thought you were Steve-sexual, and now you might be Brian-sexual? Congratulations for coming out of the closet!" And a lesbian woman who doesn't know a few women who are with another woman because it's easier to REMAIN closeted, or because someone else buys their drinks, or because they think it's the feminist thing to do, or because their last boyfriend was a complete ass just doesn't get out much. Sexuality can be all kinds of pragmatic. Why not?

Pergola Princess 5 pts

I couldn't agree with you more. It should have been titled "'Why Are Some Women Coming Out Later in Life?"   You have to be bi/gay to truly understand the enormous pressure it is to live your life in a straight world.

I have The View on now....it made me sick to hear these woman repeat over and over again how they are not gay....hmm are you sure you're not?  You don't hear bi/gay woman repeat over and over again " I am not straight!" "I am not straight!"

It has been good and bad that being gay has been sensationized in Hollywood and in the press.  But I guess awareness is awareness.

Deb - you made me laugh outloud regarding your comment about Stedman and Gail. You go girl!

StephanieInCA 5 pts

I feel like Oprah has taken a hard turn to the right recently. Did anybody catch her interview with Steve Harvey? Evidently he has a book out explaining to us wimminfolk that when we "give away our cookie" (i kid you not), it makes us look like desparate sluts. 

http://urbzen.com/2009/03/25/steve-harvey-wishes-y...

nellewrites 6 pts

It's as if the show was trying to say that sexuality is black or white, gay or straight, one way or the other, and that this concept of fluid sexuality was somehow new. I was annoyed that this was even a topic and the way it was dramatized was just ridiculous.

and trannies have been dealing with this seemingly forever, even within the lgbt community, it makes me crazy.

People certainly do experiment, and in the process they gain confidence in who they are in the overall package of sexuality, a package that is unique to each of us.

Distilling this down into you are this or this or this is silly. It's a complex world out there, what with physical sex being male or female or a range of intersex, the infinity of gender, the spectrum of orientation. Trying to suss out a formula that creates cute little boxes where each of us neatly slot is goofy.

llhaesa ( http://llhaesa.org/ )

Deb Rox 5 pts

 You described the problems with the show's approach very well Zoe.  By putting sexuality, fluid sexuality, bisexuality, coming out, acceptance of lesbianism etc in the frame of "Mrs. Brady is leaving Mr. Brady for Alice" and trying to make it sound like a current trend is so bizarre and demeaning.  I hope the guests who wanted to tell their stories felt good about the experience, but beyond that it certainly wasn't of value.

Oprah is at her worst on issues of sexuality and on weight.  Ugh.

Deb
www.debontherocks.com ( http://www.debontherocks.com/ )blog
www.3smartgirlz.com ( http://www.3smartgirlz.com/ ) consulting

ninepoems 5 pts

I happened to be home from work yesterday and tuned into Oprah, which I don't do very often at all. I was dumbfounded at the show's stupidity and Oprah's confusion about how a woman who typically sleeps with men would ever want to sleep with a woman. They brought up the topic of fluid sexuality, and it seemed to me that it was so overdramatized. It's as if the show was trying to say that sexuality is black or white, gay or straight, one way or the other, and that this concept of fluid sexuality was somehow new. I was annoyed that this was even a topic and the way it was dramatized was just ridiculous.

At one point Oprah was talking to a woman who had always dated men, but at parties while having drinks felt attracted to her girlfriends. Then she went home and slept with her husband. And Oprah was shocked by this. "You slept with your husband?!?!? That same night???"  

I ended up turning it off about half way through, so maybe it picked up at the end.

Rochelle | Nine*Poems Blog ( http://ninepoems.com ) | Twitter ( http://www.twitter.com/ninepoems )

nellewrites 6 pts

the no definable reason exists all too often simply because what rattles around within hasn't found a verbal or written outlet to convey all that stirs.

I know for my family, they've scoured their minds trying to figure out some clue, some shred of evidence that might in retrospect prove an arrow pointing here. Not there; I was too good at burying and suppressing, and that is true of so many of us.

That is not to say some are curious and explore, but water seeks its own level and our attractions ultimately most often do as well - at least now (as opposed to say 1960.)

llhaesa ( http://llhaesa.org/ )

CRB-H 5 pts

I agree with what you have written.  I did read the article and as yet have not watched the show but will.  I had the same insite you have written but just couldn't find the right words.  I think if we are de-sensitizing ourselves, society, to accept these behaviors and I think we are on a very slippery slope here.  Although, I have recently had a friend that this exact thing has happened too, I'm just not sure I'm buying it yet.  I'm happy for her but it is just bothersome.  I have absolutely nothing against being gay, at all.  I have famiily members who are and I'm perfectly fine with their lifestyles, but this kind of behavior, the switching here for no definable reason, I find a little disturbing.  Still confused by it all.

nellewrites 6 pts

I agree with the lot of it.

The title, well... mass marketing at work. Make it sound like this new quirky phenomenon, as if humanity is undergoing this mass exodus of women from heterosexual life.

In my head is this line from The Who's Tommy, (right before the final song 'We're Not Gonna Take It', I believe) "There's more at the door!"

I'm not anti-Oprah,she does good, some not so great, but her intentions are fine. (Thinking back to her programme on young tg folk, which left me a tad annoyed at the parents of one child in particular.)

With the subject matter, we are still in the midst of change, and people find courage at various times, triggered by the push within overcoming the push from without. You nailed it by saying some do not know until it bites them in the arse, I know many who have travelled this route. Something is askew, and they flounder at times trying to make do, and then some light bulb goes off.

It wasn't that way for me, but it certainly is for many. I just believed I was one sick puppy.

It would be nice if say... Bitch tackled the subject, the issue might be treated with more reverence for reality, rather than the sensational. Yeah, women leave men for other women. Men leave women for other men, men leave women for other women, and women leave men for other men. Such is life.

The truly interesting element is the ripping down of walls such that people start searching for their own life-truth, and that... is a very good thing. We are in the middle of a time period where the push without lessens, and the push within sends many of us, a multi-generational mix, outward.

llhaesa ( http://llhaesa.org/ )

Denise 9 pts moderator

Like you, I didn't see the show so I won't pan it completely.

I'm also pretty anti-Oprah anything, so I'm negatively biased.

But, all of the things you mentioned and linked to were things that troubled me. You did an excellent job of addressing the laundry list of gripes I've been making in my head about the article and the show.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings ( http://www.flamingohouse.net/ )