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Rita Arens authors Surrender, Dorothy and Surrender, Dorothy: Reviews. She is BlogHer.com's senior editor.  Her parenting anthology and BlogHer'...
 
 
 
 

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Working Moms or Not: Is Your Child "the Best Thing You've Ever Done"?

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Nancy Hass of Elle, a mother of one, recently wrote a scathing article called "Die, Mommy, Die!" in which she contends successful women should shut up already about their kids at work.  Is she right? Is childbirth an accomplishment as much as a phenomenal presentation is?

Hass writes of interviewing a successful CEO who begins their interview about work by insisting her child is the best thing she's ever done.  (Editor's Note: I'm having trouble linking the article because it contains a "!"  Here's the link: http://www.elle.com/Living/Career/Die-Mommy-Die! You may have to type in the "!" at the end of the URL to get to the article.) Hass, asked about her own child, writes:

But I have never once thought of her as the best thing I’ve ever done. Perhaps that’s a function of having had a better-than average work life, but it’s also because I’m loath to take credit for my daughter as an accomplishment. Reproducing, even for me, who had to go to such lengths to become a mother, doesn’t feel like a personal achievement; it’s just a natural part of the human cycle.

Wow, eh?

While I don't always practice what I preach, I do think working moms should keep a lid on the public kid talk when nonparents comprise the group at the office.  In my cubicle group at work, I was the only mother for years. I've seen the faces of my child-free co-workers fall when a new mom rushes over to my cube for a 30-minute session on the first drive to work after maternity leave.  While I will always support another new working mom -- God, I know, I know! -- I try not to wax on when it's not a private conversation.  Whether or not to talk about your kids at work is not nearly as interesting as whether or not your child is your best accomplishment, though.  Am I wrong?

There is certainly no dearth of celebrity mothers who think motherhood is the best thing they've ever done, from Baby Spice to conservative talk radio host Laura Ingraham. In the blogosphere, teen single mom Jess writes that her son Justin is the best thing she's ever done, and BlogHer Linda Lowen writes on her profile that she believes her two girls are her greatest accomplishment, although she also writes about women's issues for About.com.

On the flip side, there are those who are really tired of hearing how we mothers weren't alive until we procreated.  Kate from Childfree Clique writes:

Ahhh...the joys of being a mother.

That is ALL we EVER hear.

Like a broken goddamn record of propaganda.

MOTHERHOOD IS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER DONE!

MY LIFE WASN'T HAPPY, FULFILLING OR COMPLETE UNTIL I HAD KIDS!

YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT REAL LOVE IS UNTIL YOU'VE HAD A BABY!

BECOMING A MOM MADE ME A BETTER PERSON!

Yada, yada, yada.

Perhaps what Kate and Hass are both getting at is that children aren't really an accomplishment. Or are they?

When my daughter was first born and people complimented her, I would say, "Thank you." When she was first born, she still seemed like such a natural extension of me. I mean, she'd been literally inside me just months before. So at that point, I did feel like she was the best thing I'd ever done.  

When she started talking, I realized almost overnight I'd been wrong:  She wasn't part of me at all. At least, not anymore. It's hard, this break, to wrap your head around. Parenting is a job, and it's something you do, but perhaps your parenting is your accomplishment, not your child. As my daughter's personality emerged, I stepped farther and farther away from taking credit for her.  I can mold her a bit, but she's pure HER, regardless of my efforts.  She is taking her own compliments these days while I stand beside her, yes, beaming with pride, but not for me, for her.

I no longer think my daughter is the best thing I've ever done. I now think that she is the best thing that ever happened to me.

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Crimson Wife 5 pts

Ms. Hass seems to be getting annoyed that her interviewees consider themselves moms first and CEO's or whatever second. I feel sorry for kids whose moms do NOT feel that way. It's all fine and good to take pride in one's professional accomplishments. But they're not what's REALLY important once children enter the picture. Assuming that the women being interviewed by Ms. Hass are telling her the truth about their priorities, they ought to be applauded not criticized for it.

Rita Arens 7 pts

Crimson Wife -- can you elaborate?  How do you think the kids are suffering? I'm not sure there's a direct correlation between where a woman puts her personal pride and the job she does as a mother. I'm sure we'd like to understand you better -- you may not have meant what you wrote in the way I'm reading it.

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com ) and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak ( http://tinyurl.com/9pg62e ).

Crimson Wife 5 pts

All you moms who consider some career accomplishment more important to you than becoming a mom.

Don't get me wrong, I had a perfectly fine life before my kids were born. I'm proud of things I did in the paid positions I've held, of earning my degree, of various personal and professional accomplishments, etc. It feels good to have one's hard work recognized with promotions, honors/awards, etc. But none of them are even remotely as important to me as my own children. 

I'm not solely defined by being my children's mom, but it's the most important part of who I am. Jobs come and go (especially in the current economic climate), but family is forever.

Amanda_Magee 5 pts

It seems that sometimes, particularly with parenting, people are quick to make it black and white. Don't talk about it at work, or that's all it's about at work. It changed my life or I don't need it in my life. I just don't feel resentment when people express joy or satisfaction, no matter how vocal they are about it. That said, I only talk about my kids when asked in the workplace— my blogs, my home, that's another story. 

I loved how you said that she was the best thing that ever happened to you. I wish that kind of statement for everyone. 

Amanda

http://lifewithbriar.blogspot.com

http://toddlywinks.blogspot.com

MAInfo 5 pts

I think of my kids as my life's work.  Not that I take credit for the things that they do.  I know I have been an influence on them.  But most of their greatness is innate.  

Whether to spout off constantly at work about the kids in front of childless coworkers, I think that some sensitivity is in order.  I know a number of infertile women around the internet.  I know some in real life, too, although most people don't discuss infertility openly in real life.  It breaks my heart.  These folks have tried for years to conceive, usually putting themselves into deep financial debt, only to fail.  To go on and on in rhapsodies about how motherhood changes you and how it is a love that only mothers can know may be honest, but too brutal.  Not all truths need to be spoken of on a constant basis.  

I hear bitterness in the article, and I comprehend it.  I'm so sorry to all the ladies who are struggling with infertility.  My heart truly cries for you, and I hope that you find some solutions and comfort in this world. 

MAInfo.blogspot 44-y-o mom of 6

myfunnyfunnyfamily 5 pts

For one thing, the CEO said, "Isn't IT the best thing you've ever done?"

"It" isn't her child. "It" is parenting. And yes, parenting, being a mother, is the best thing I've ever done. My husband would tell you the same thing. Hands down.

I think this writer was really looking a gift horse in the mouth. I've interviewed a lot of CEOs, and it's rare for someone to open up so freely to a reporter about his/her personal life, right away. This CEO reached out a hand of rapport -- something the reporter could actually related to -- and the reporter let it hang there.

One thing I discovered, to my delight, after having my first child is that it gave me some common ground with so many of the other women I met in daily life -- coworkers, the woman doing my nails, anyone. If you don't know what to talk about, ask someone if they have kids, and it's like you have both had a martini -- the conversation begins to flow. I certainly wouldn't prattle on about my kids to someone who shows no interest, but I love the common ground it gives me with people from vastly different social stratas.

Rita Arens 7 pts

I think you guys have really nailed the "how much to talk about kids at work" thing on the head:  moderation is key.  If you're asked a direct question, it's fine to reply. What we as moms have to avoid is launching in on people without reading their nonverbal cues. If the other person's eyes glaze, it's time to look for a more forgiving audience.

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com ) and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak ( http://tinyurl.com/9pg62e ).

JCK 5 pts

 I am currently a SAHM, so I can't speak to an office environment. But, I do remember many years in which I was trying (unsuccessfully) to become pregnant, and feeling very sensitive to other women going on and ON about their children. Now I understand that, but would hope I would be able to temper myself a bit and note when it is appropriate conversation or not.

I really connected with what you said about perhaps it being parenting that is your accomplishment, rather than your children. Someday I hope to look back and feel that I earned that accomplishment. I don't feel that my children are MY accomplishment, yet I do know that they are my greatest blessing and have stretched me in ways I could never have thought possible. I believe our children, however they come to us, are here to be OUR teachers.

I love Kahlil Gibran's Poem:

ON CHILDREN

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let our bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

JCK from Motherscribe

http://motherscribe.blogspot.com ( http://motherscribe.blogspot.com/ )

kkooyers 5 pts

"Parenting is a job, and it's something you do, but perhaps your parenting is your accomplishment, not your child."

I completely agree.  I struggled with the decision to have kids and finally was okay with it, once I decided it was ultimately a creative act, and i consider myself to be a creative person. But i wouldn't say having a child was the most creative act I've done, I would say parenting is. And I adore my kids, but they are not "my accomplishment." That being said, I can see why people might feel that way, when you give so many aspects of your life up for them. 

http://www.gratitude365.blogspot.com/ 

Delaine Moore 5 pts

Trying to identity ONE thing as be THE most important accomplishment somehow negates other valuable ways in which we've personally grown and acheived our best. We don't need to narrow it down to one.   

We don't need to love or feeling proud of just one thing.  

Delaine Moore

www.iamdivorcednotdead.com ( http://www.iamdivorcednotdead.com/ )

Because a woman's body never lies...

muimi07 5 pts

I think your last line sums it up beautifully. My daughter isn't the best thing I have ever done.  She may have resided in my womb but she was and will always be her own person. I am her mother and I feel honored to have I carried her, honored to be the one to nurture her. I did not make her on my own, she is not a project to have finished or a goal to have accomplished. To say that doesn't give her credit to who she is as a person.

--

Michelle ~ http://www.mommymisadventures.com/

Colormepink 5 pts

I can't take the credit for my kids.  Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to take credit for raising them well, but the best thing I ever did?  No.  The best thing that ever happened to me?  Yes, definitely.  

I don't think that it's bad advice to limit your childtalk at work - I know the sun rises and sets on my babies for me, but I certainly don't expect my colleagues to feel the same way. 

Christine
It's My World.  Welcome To It.
Blog: http://www.colormepink.com
Jewelry Blog: http://www.starbrightjewels.com/blog

mamalang 5 pts

that my life wasn't complete or fulfilling before I had kids.  But my life is fuller and more complete now that I have.  I do try to limit the talk of my children with my coworkers...I don't mention them unless it's pertinent to the conversation or I've been asked.  I have pictures of them and by them on my walls, because they help keep me happy.  No different than the people with pictures of models, bicycles or computer systems hanging on their wall.  Ultimately, we spend as many if not more of our awake hours with out coworkers as we do our families.  Some bleedover is to be expected.

I think some people just protest too much.  I tend to avoid those people.

mamalang

gabriellek 5 pts

I have to agree with your last statement. Kids changed my life forever. It was a huge adjustment and a great gift. I planned for no children, thought I would only have a career and all that entails but I have been blessed with FOUR kids and the accomplishment is NOT mine, but I have reaped the benefits of parenthood, I have grown beyond my wildest dreams and I have become a person that would not have been possible anywhere else. Children are not a badge of honor, or right of passage, but people. They must be taught to embody citizenship and honor through our actions and their own, but as an accomplishment they would feel undue pressure and stress if they were supposed to be an extension of me. Don't get me wrong when they do something crazy or embarrassing, I have a moment of, "AGH, when they do that people will think it's a reflection of me!!" Which is only part true because they are also foolish like us and make mistakes that are only a reflection of themselves. Oh, the perils and joys of parenthood! I would never want my former life and I'm glad for the education children have given me.

conversemomma 5 pts

I spent the first year of motherhood obsessed with sharing every single detail of my son's life with anyone who would listen. I also carried around pictures and forced them upon people. It got so bad that co-workers would turn the other way when they saw me coming. I was a nightmare.

My children do define me, but only in part. I'm still so many things I was before them, a voracious reader, a nature lover, a terrible cook, a daughter, a best-friend, a teacher, a wife. Those things matter too.

I don't know how much of my babies I take credit for, but I do want to give them their due. I did not start striving to write myself down, put my words out there, until they were born.

For me, having children made me fearful and fearless at the same time. I suddenly realized that I had these two people who would look to me for answers, look up to me as a model of womanhood in the word. That was terrifying. It was also the impetus for me to go after this dream of writing. I have always said my children bore my poetry on their backs. And so, I've become what before I only dreamed because of them and for them because of me.

 Kelly

http://www.ordinaryartblog.com ( http://www.ordinaryartblog.com/ )

Rita Arens 7 pts

I know, Laurie. I know.  You have the right to swing your hand until it smacks someone else in the face.

Rita Arens writes at Surrender Dorothy ( http://surrenderdorothy.typepad.com ) and BlogHer and is the editor of Sleep is for the Weak ( http://tinyurl.com/9pg62e ).

lauriewrites 6 pts

This is an important topic for me and I want to make sure this makes sense. :) 

I think you're right, or at least I agree with you, that parenting well is an accomplishment, and I think it's a great thing to raise people to be good human beings. Having seen the other side too many times it's frightening what happens when parents don't care or pass on negative behaviors and personality traits. I owe much of my integrity/critical thinking ability and other traits to my parents and grandparents, because they set up good expectations and guided me in the right direction (for the most part.) 

I think the key is the same as it is in most things in life: knowing your audience.  It's hard for me to hear that a friend was nothing until she had her kids because as a person who wants them but doesn't have them, it reinforces some weird sense of nothingness that I know isn't true but...ugh. And if it was the greatest thing she ever did in her life? Sigh....But that's just me. And even if it's the greatest thing to HAPPEN to you, yeah, I believe it, and if it doesn't? Oh well.

Because in my case I can believe that it is just that amazing to be a parent. It's an intense experience, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Other childless/free/whatever people will resoundingly disagree. But I also have a co-worker who is a mom who complains about her kids all the time, who speaks on a weekly basis of how difficult and stressful it is, how she'd love the "free time" I have (also annoying) but I can tell it's a problem for her. I don't reject her opinion either, but I can't help but think, wow, lucky YOU - what I wouldn't give, etc. etc.  

But again, NOT MY LIFE. Bottom line, we need to approach one another respectfully as individuals,  and that's a neverending challenge.

And people like Kate from Childfree Clique (ew) who write stuff like "rejecting rugrats at every turn" bother me far more than a person at work talking about her child's dance recital. Rejecting an entire age group of human beings is absurd to me, and represents a fringe element of childfree/less people who don't resemble most of the people I've met throughout my life who don't have children. Like that's not propaganda? Please.

Laurie

LaurieWrites ( http://lauriewrites.typepad.com )

lauriewrites 6 pts

I often want to talk about my friends' and colleagues' kids, because they matter to them and the stories are usually pretty fun. My best friend's kids are awesome. Her 2-year-old son thinks I'm Santa Claus, seriously. He says "Merry Christmas" to me every time he hangs up the phone, apropos of nothing, and she gets back on the phone and we crack up. I talk to both of her children every time I talk to her. I'm the auntie and I love it. My cousin's children are outstanding and know me and we hang out together.I've written about this before...I think I have to again.

I don't think there always needs to be a division unless it's requested. I mean, I hear more about renovations from married people, but maybe that's just my life experience, and that, to me, is the most mind-numbing conversation in the world. (Note: I'm terribly sorry, but I do not care about anyone's new floors. I care that you like them and have them, certainly, but I so want to stab myself if I have to listen to how they were installed and contractor drama ranks somewhere below gout on my interestingness scale. Can you tell I rent? ;)) Also I had a dog who I loved beyond life but I did. not. drone. on. about. him. However, people who love me knew he was important and would actually ask about him and I'd say a thing or two and move on. And let me tell you, the people who reached out and knew I was a mess when he died? Friends for life.  

If it's part of the normal flow of conversation, I don't need anyone to censor conversation about children. However, if like some friends and colleagues of mine, that's all you talk about and either show no interest in anything else or worse yet demean me because I'm not a parent (which has happened in recent years with a close friend who is no longer close for that reason) the relationship will not continue on a useful level. And this would be the same if all the person ever talked about was flooring or brickwork. :)

Laurie

LaurieWrites ( http://lauriewrites.typepad.com )

AmberS 5 pts

I talk about my kids at work, in a superficial way.  This is the same way I might talk to childless co-workers about their renovation, their new pet, you know, whatever's going on with them.  I think as long as you're not crossing the polite chit-chat line it's fine.

I have a lot of mom friends who do say that their lives changed when they had kids, and all the things that used to seem important now pale in comparison.  And I think that's kind of unfortunate.  I mean, certainly, parenthood changes things immensely, and it changes your perspective.  But hopefully you're still you.  Hopefully you still have your own interests and hobbies.

Your kids are going to grow up and become their own people, so you need to maintain other areas of your life.  You will not be doing this forever, and then what?

~ Amber

www.strocel.com ( http://www.strocel.com )

ameliasprout 5 pts

Being a mom while it is a huge part of who I am, but doesn't define me.  It just happens to be what I do outside of work.  Some guys/gals talk about movies, or sewing, or sports.  I talk about what takes up my time outside of the office when talk is about that, and that is my daughter.  She isn't the best thing I've ever done, I'd like to think that is me.  Being a  good mom means being the best me possible.  Sometimes that means not spending time with her, or taking off to go to a blogging conference for a few days (yay!).  I never begrudged the guy at work who talked about his daugher who has CF before I had kids.  I knew that was what he dealt with all the time outside of work.  It didn't make me respect him less professionally.  

 Why in the hell can we stop trying to cut eachother down for the choices we make and support eachother as women, or just human beings.  

 Amelia (ameliasprout.blogspot.com ( http://ameliasprout.blogspot.com ))

rebellious thinker 5 pts

While I am immensely proud of my daughters I have always tried to see them as themselves, and certainly not my little trophy children. But their presence in my life has enabled me to perceive life as different than when I was not a mother.  They helped me to change my outlook, my philoophy, my expectations, and my desires.  Perhaps I am their accomplishment.  

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com ( http://www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com/ )

Morra Aarons Mele 5 pts

Love your post Rita.

I went to a work life fair recently and the most memorable kernel of advice I got from a working mom on how to succeed as a working mom was, "Don't always talk about your kids, and NEVER, ever show up to the office with spit-up on your suit." Fair enough.

But the the other day, my husband had spit up on his sweater at an important meeting and everyone cooed about what a great dad he is...

Ironic, no?

Morra Aarons-Mele
www.womenandwork.org

JanisMiller 5 pts

Interesting post.

I agree with you that my kids (and now grandkids, too) are one of the best things that have happened to me. I also agree with Sandhill Sis, "They are the greatest gift I've ever been given." Being surrounded by my family is the dearest thing to me. Family is definitely a priority in my life.

I also agree that no one wants to hear about them as much as I do, and I am far more entertained by their lives than anyone else. [OK that is one of the best things about being a grandma—when it comes to grandkids there IS someone else who IS as interested as I am! LOL]

Some thoughts about Hass’ article. (yeah, I actually read it) 

1. Listening to what others have to say about their kids (or anything else for that matter) is a way of connecting and caring about one another. Do other people's lives really bother Ms Hass that much that she cannot relate to them and their lives and join in some friendly chatter no matter what it is about?

2. Maybe the CEO merely meant choosing to be a mom was “just the best thing [she’s] ever done.”  I really doubt with all her accomplishments she meant it as literally as Ms. Hass took it or was actually taking credit for the person her daughter is.

3. Or maybe the CEO was just referring to the life adjustments that she had to make to be a mom as “the best thing.”  As The Pioneer Woman wrote, "The moment you have a child... Your life is never, ever your own again.” Is it any wonder that it is a topic of conversation for moms?

4. Why was Ms Hass so uptight and irritated by the situation and then felt she had to lie? (Bad hair day?) Relax, engage the moment. Who knows-- by relating to the CEO she may have had a better interview than she did.

5. First Ms Hass complains about the CEO going on about her daughter but then takes a paragraph in her article to describe her “slaphappy toddler” who has a mesmerizing “Betty Boop voice” and “flapping pigtails.” She sounds adorable to me. I would love to hear more about her. Her mom certainly has a great way with words.

Ms Hass obviously received some attention with her “scathing article” and article title. Is it “mission accomplished” or “much ado about nothing”?

There was a point in my life that I thought I would not have kids. I am so glad that the circumstances in my life changed. I made a choice ... what’s so wrong with thinking it is the best choice I've ever made. It really is an amazing experience.

unmotivated yet 5 pts

Hey, everything reproduces - it is call survival of species, accomplishment is how you raise your kids, not just having them. But in a workplace - work is your accomplishment not kids...........Am I wrong?

terryberry 5 pts

My children may be the center of my universe, but they're not the center of anyone else's. And I hate, hate, hate getting together with friends and having to listen to them rattle on about their children's fevers, awards, sports injuries, etc. We may be parents, but surely we have other things to talk about.

Thanks for bringing up an important subject!

Terry

Single Women Rule ( http://www.singlewomenrule.com )

Dating Advice (Almost) Daily ( http://www.happygirlmusing.blogspot.com )

sandhillsis 5 pts

...a gift from a great God. 

When you boil all the water out of the pot and you're dying...What would you rather be surrounded by...A room full of accolades and accomplishments or a room full of family? I'll take family.

My kids aren't the best thing I have ever done. They are the greatest gift I've ever been given.

Sandhill Sis

www.reclaimsimplicity.com ( http://www.reclaimsimplicity.com/

Discover how rich and hilarious life can be when it's simple. Tales and tips on making money mind, riding the recycle, simple food, homegrown music, gardening and more.

MilenaThomas 5 pts

I think there has been a move to elevate children in recent decades.  Take my opinion for what you will.  I'm 28 and childless, though trying to have kids.

 My husband and i talk about how we will not be "those people" who harp about parenthood and childhood.  

I don't want my life to become being a mother only - it's one aspect of one's life.  Kids need love, but they don't need to be little kings and queens. 

BlueGal 5 pts

tremendously when I learned to limit myself at work to talking about work only.  That sounds cold and impersonal but I was instantly perceived as more professional and the drama between me and certain co-workers vanished. 

Sometimes it's best to just suck it up and be an employee/professional rather than trying to carry all your roles everywhere at once.   That doesn't work in all situations but it definitely worked for me.  

Fran

Blue Gal

http://bgalrstate.blogspot.com

Blythe 5 pts

That's something my mother has always said about me, and while I understand that she's expressing her pride in my successes, it's always felt strange.  Now that I have a child of my own, I try to be careful to think of raising him as something I am doing, but BEING him as something he's doing himself.